Starting Over Talk - Peer Coaching Support Site

Tara wrote:

QUOTE:
It wasn't cancelled due to low ratings or lack of money. They made plenty of money off the show because it cost so little to produce. I'm sure it was canceled because Oxygen offered BM a better deal with the show Bad Girls Club. I'm sure that show will get even less of an audience but Oxygen will be able to market it better and get better deals with sponsors.

Tara, please explain how you know this?

LaurenB wrote:

QUOTE:
Tara wrote:

QUOTE:
It wasn't cancelled due to low ratings or lack of money. They made plenty of money off the show because it cost so little to produce. I'm sure it was canceled because Oxygen offered BM a better deal with the show Bad Girls Club. I'm sure that show will get even less of an audience but Oxygen will be able to market it better and get better deals with sponsors.

Tara, please explain how you know this?

yes, Tara, please share how you know this "insider info"?
B/M would not cancel a "successful show" just to promote another show on another market. If anything they would use the success of SO to promote their new show on Oxygen. That is what makes a successful company. I would also love to know how you know that this show cost so little to produce.
So please post a link where you got this info, I would love to show it to my boss, who apparently incorrectly cancelled the show for bad ratings.

Even though I have never worked in television, I am a cyber-friend of tvgal's and she had a post on her message board months ago with an announcement of the cancellation and it stated flat out that it was due to low ratings. In fact she posted the Nielsen ratings every week. I seem to remember that it was really bad during the couples shows and they came up some during the women. I think the show never recovered from that.


I would agree that starting another show would not be the reason. The cable stations like Bravo and fx and others use time during one show to promote another. I know I just about pull my hair out watching Project Runway and in every single break there is the same promo for the show that they are trying to get viewers for. During this weeks show I saw the Million Dollar Listing promo over and over. Bunim Murray is a successful production company for reality shows and they seem to add on new ones each year. The more shows you have, the more money you make.

But if Tara has something that shows they cancelled it to start Bad Girls, I would also love to see that.

As if it really matters... I recall hearing the same info Tara shared. (info regarding costs of SO to produce)
I don't recall when but it had to have been earlier in SO3 or even late in the season in SO2 when speculation about SO3 was being tossed around. Somehow I recall someone directly related with SO mentioning it.. I visit several forums and it could have also been from the original forum at the show's website. I wish my menapausal brain could say exactly where...

I did happen to see a recent article about reality costs being high while doing some searches...but most of that was attributed to 'sets' (and more elaborate houses) and trying to outdo the competition... also factored in were rising costs of cameracrew...I guess it takes a certain knack for someone to follow others around discreetly watching them.. SO supposedly only had a 2 camera system (human) with fixed cameras also used to capture certain areas...

But in SO's case.. they rented a house, at least 2 cars, and had the staff of the 3 professionals... and of course the production people... Someone mentioned the house was decorated with Target stores decor items.. so it wasn't like it was a house of luxury.. I wouldn't mind having it... LOL! But with the rich and famous abounding there... the house was probably towards the middle class side.. So I think those type expenses were down.. We know they didn't advertise the show...so that saved them alot of money..

SO was a reality show in a class by itself. It was the only daytime one... and one that was particular geared toward women from 20-50 (give or take!)... Judging from many of us who aren't ashamed to admit our ages on this board... there are many of us in our 40's and 50's!

As for who cancelled the show...that is still a good question. I still think b/m held all or the majority of the power... In the reality shows segment of this forum I made a post with info of press releases that were issued on May 30th announcing that Oxygen had signed for 22(?) episodes of Bad Girls from B/M. There are quotes from Jonathan Murray saying why this show came about... rough quote "that people had a fascination with the bad girls on the reality shows"... (we love to hate them!) So they decided to get a house in L.A. and have 6 women live together with the hope of trying to reform their bad girl ways... It will be interesting to see how the show is edited...and if it has an SO bent to it... Sure sounds like it already!

NBC could have cancelled the show and B/M could have found another distributor... All their shows are on various networks as it is... But with B/M and Oxygen jointly making press releases at the end of May, coincidentally at the conclusion of the SO3 season.. it just looks to me that B/M wanted to go in another direction and wasn't invested in the show as it was. NBC didn't know the status as of June when fans were contacting them... and fans receiving conflicting info... NBC and B/M should have had some form of understanding... Rhonda says in her blog that the show was never officially cancelled as of late summer (and only recently have we seen something dated in mid-Sept with confirmation of cancellation). Her contract was with B/M... Of course if B/M wanted to go in another direction with the same SO concept, they wouldn't sell rights to the show to someone else... It's clear to me that B/M probably had designs out for the new show for quite some time before the May 30th announcements re: Bad Girls and Oxygen.

In all probability the writing was on the wall for everyone during SO3... and I had mentioned this when rumor first arose about the 5k race and reunion SO3 finale...

In the end, I would guess that maybe since there were mentions from Rhonda's camp and Iyanla's about production issues that there may also have been no love lost between B/M of the last 2 seasons and the staff. Maybe that is why they didn't give them the courtesy of letting them know the official status of the show or their contracts.

As for TVgal... I have a great respect for her...... I think different markets were pulling the show at various times throughout this past season so there were local cancellations. I know it wasn't even showing in Miami... The DC market showed it till the end...and now doesn't even have anything remotely normal in the time slot... A pbs style cooking show (with unknowns) and an infomerical type show... I don't think our local network has found a viable replacement!

How did most of us find out about the show? Most of us stumbled on it... or that is how I found it.. The show was never marketed very well... That might have been NBC's fault... but I don't know the tv biz very well...

Mejustme... if your boss cancelled it, maybe you could clue us in on whether it was B/M or NBC who ultimately made the decision. Or maybe you work for a local affiliate and neither B/M or NBC.

If B/M knew in May they were committed to the new project by contract, NBC should have had the guts to officially say in June that the show was officially cancelled rather than hem and haw.... and passing the buck.

I would encourage folks to look at the links in the post re: Bad Girls. (link to another area on this site)
http://www.startingovertalk.com/component/option,com_joomlaboard/Itemid,99/func,view/id,69197/catid,109/

I'm not trying to fuel an argument... It's really sad for the viewers.. SO had it's editing problems...that's for sure.. but it had some value and real lessons for many of us who struggle with many of the same problems these women faced. I usually was able to relate to almost all the women in one way or another..

My opinion is just that, an opinion.. A humble one at that, but I've formed it based on the information that thus far has been made available.

I don't even think debating about it anymore is constructive... We all know SO as we knew it is not coming back anytime soon and even if it did, it probably won't involve B/M (good thing !) or the name &quot;Starting Over&quot; ... But the concept is out there... and will be revived and hopefully have better promoter's/marketing and better editing!<br><br>Post edited by: KPW1956, at: 2006/10/09 10:35

I do work in production at the local level. Reality shows are very popular now days for two major reasons. They are cheap to do and they are very popular now. There are no actors salaries to deal with and the crews are minimal compared to your weekly drama's and comedies that you see on networks. Plus making sets that look like whole houses and neighborhoods and all that instead of a house that they rent and furnish.

On the advertising end of it, that is included with the show. We take promo feeds for all syndicated shows that air. It is up to the local station on whether they use their air time to promote the show.

SO was a syndicated show which means that every station that airs the show has actually purchased the rights to the show. That is how NBC and B/M make their money. That is why you saw the show being dumped at different times by the various stations. Some stations will just take the loss and stop airing it when they find another syndicated show to replace it with. While others will move it to a different less expensive time slot. That is usually what happens because syndicated shows have what is called barter commercials within the show. These were sold by the syndicator to help fund it and if the local station doesn't air them, then they have to take those commercials out of the show and air it in the new show that replaced it. They have to do this because the commercial time has already been paid for.

The show had bad ratings and that means that the local stations cannot charge as much for the :30 second openings that are given to them. Since the station has already &quot;bought&quot; the show, this means that their profit margin just got smaller.
So in the end it is the loss of the local stations that got the show cancelled. The syndicator which is NBC would not want to release this info too early because it most likely will cause other stations to check into what others have replaced it with and if the ratings are better, they will follow suit and then NBC loses more money even faster.
My boss knew back in June that the show would not be doing a fourth season, but because of the bad ratings she had already decided not to air it even if there was a fourth season.
I appreciated your thoughtful comments on this KPW and I guess I just get defensive when comments are made by some that are not fact but just what they think.
I can't imagine I will like the Bad Girl show, because I assume that will be houseguests like Nyanza and Tess and they would get annoying when they were one in a house of six. Can you imagine what it will be like to have the whole house be like that.

I appreciate your informative reply mejustme...

I can't imagine getting excited over Bad Girls either. I think they were going to be pulling the Bad Girls from various reality bents..Can you imagine, Nyanza, Paris Hilton, Lisa, Tess, or Omorosa...being in the same house together... 1 in a house is more than enough drama..

No clue yet on who will actually be in the 'house'...but I think if it really is slated to start in December that promotion for the show will kick in. Recently my cable provider gave up Oxygen in favor of another sports network.. I haven't been too keen on some of Oxygen's programming. They really seem to be trying to promote the bad girl image with some of their original programming...I.e. janice Dickinson, Snapped, and a few other shows.. (not reruns like Ellen, Tyra and Oprah..) I wonder if Oprah still has a share of ownership in that network. Maybe she is just a financial backer.. or was when the cable network was 'born'.... Would be interesting to find out.

I thought it was going to be a network that promoted women's issues in positive ways.. Disappointed to say the least...