Starting Over Talk - Peer Coaching Support Site

Nods, my sister is one that can walk in and fake some mental illness and then overcome it. All for attention. She's good.... for awhile til she bores of it. She also can play quite sane when she wants something. It took many years for her to be deemed a Sociopath and schizo. She still can charm them though.

I guess I came from a state that if you were deemed a danger to self and / or others... that the mental health facility is to keep you for a longer evaluation. Also if a parent or spouse went to court or Adult Protective Services with the evaluation of harming self and/ or others that they can put you into an in-patient status. That is what I meant as dropping the ball. If VA doesn't allow spouses and/ or parents to place a potentially harmful person into some in-depth help then it's the state that dropped the ball IMO.

I do believe to school did what it could and thought it was best. It seems like it was a puzzle and there was no centralized information on the student. I know you can't make the student go to couseling but if those writings were so disturbing, he was known to be depressed and withdrawn, and made everyone uncomfortable around him... then these issues should be compiled somewhere. Psychologist only know what they are given and sometimes that isn't much to go on. Did they hand over the writings to them as part of the evaluation or only went off just the possible suicidal thoughts? What would have happened if the writings and other things were presented to the examiner? (I do realize that the papers may have come after the examination) .... but still.... it seems that it these mass killers have several red flags raised but never in the same place... esp in schools. Or teachers would talk amonst themselves but with no one who truely had the power to examine the issues and had the power to decide if futher examination is warrented.

I think less attention should be payed on his manifesto and such and more attention should be payed on how he got to that point and what can we do to flag these people and possibly stopping another mass killing. I am worried that that some students are going to be tagged in an over-zealous reaction that would make being odd a crime or potential nutcase.


It may be that we will never be able to stop some of the murderers because of the risk of being over-zealous to individuals, a sociopath ability to act normal, and the freedom of privacy we Americans demand.

I don't know.

If there is indeed a law or policy that the the university felt prohibited them from terminating him as a student, I bet the administration is now rethinking their decision. I would rather be the subject of a legal action that I improperly terminated a student than what they have facing them now.

You try to do the best you can. Perhaps more could have been done, but, what? I think it would have been a good idea to have consulted with the university's attorney and even the school's liability insurance carrier's attorney, in order to survey what their options were and to take measures to do whatever necessary to make sure the campus was safe.

Foreseeability is a legal issue. Is it foreseeable that a mentally ill person who stalks students, frightens staff and students, threatens violence against himself, isolates himself from all others, and writes detailed and distubing stories of murder would be likely to actually harm a student on the campus? That might be for a jury to decide.

Since VA Tech is a state (commonwealth) school, they may have some soverign immunity, meaning they can't be sued, but, there are exceptions when they have insurance, so that can probably be gotten around.

The school did not protect the students and because of it they are the reason so many people lost their lives.

There's more than just that senerio that could have played out. It may not have been where they kicked him out and life on campus goes on like nothing will ever happen.. or they kick him out and he comes back in... with the feeling that the university has just reinforced his deep dark feelings of being rejected and picked on, fueling his anger and depression and he comes back and shoots down students and teachers. Since it's an open campus... he would be able to get into any building easily...

We can second guess to the end of time. With his type of illness... any scenerio can end up in horrible way with someone sueing the school. The best way would have been to hospitalize him for how ever long it was needed a few years ago... when he was evaluated. Simply being a threat to himself and /or others.

T/R,

That's exactly what I think! I think he would have found an opportunity regardless of what they did. It's funny I was talking to somebody today about that...

I still have yet to hear of a particular incident recently that might have triggered him and sent him over the edge. It sounds though he has spent weeks and months plotting this and that even his suite mates didn't really notice anything too out of the ordinary. He had a dark mood and was generally anti social.

The VT shootings were an awful tragedy that no family should have to experience.

In our society the law seems to bend over for the rights of the criminal or in this case the mentaly ill.

I believe tougher gun control may be our only solution. My wish is that all guns be outlawed... period... end of discussion. Ooops there goes an amendment I'd love to see gone from our Constitution.